I think I just saw a ripoff version of this somewhere else wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:39 PM:
" I guess others thought this was a good topic to write about, too, Mr. Hundt. Nice job addressing it four months ago! "
To Sharon wrote on Apr 8, 2007 10:58 PM:
" Sharon, I generally enjoy reading your posts, you seem to be intelligent, well informed, and have research to back-up your points. I have two questions for you. 1. Why and/or how do you know that being an organic farmer is simply paperwork? Tell me more about this, I'm curious. 2. 95% of the organic farmers in this area are folks that have farmed for a long time, not hippies, etc. They just transitioned to organic. Are you accusing them of being lieing to make more money? "
Walen DeWitt wrote on Apr 5, 2007 10:06 PM:
" Ok her we go, I would like to start by saying I have read allmost all the coments from this article, and I have read and understood both sides. Now please let me say something. Unlike Tim Hundt, I grew up in Viroqua, and I'm very happy that I did. When I look back at it now it could allmost be a Norman Rockwell picture. I moved away to bigger cities and states, not my siblings, so since I did grow up there and, I moved away and know what its like elsewhere, I know I'm more qualified than Tim Hundt to talk about Viroqua. Everyone has an opinion, and they should. But I'm upset that everyone on both sides is trying to make this out as a diersity issue. Lets all remember one thing, and that is, Vernon County has allways been extremely diverse. When I was growing up there, I remember all the Omish. My father tought me that they are very hard working people, and very respectable. They are polite, and very pleasent to be around. But they also could not be more different then the so called (Townies). I never remember anyone when I was groing up in Viroqua, ever saying anything negative about the Amish, we all respected them, and that is becouse they respected the (Townies). We didn't live like them, and we didn't dress like them, but, we got along with them and respected them for thier believes, and life style, as they did us. I consider myself an outsider now, becouse I have been gone for a number of years. As I read all the comments, including yours Tim Hundt, I see and hear this life style being forced down people's throat. Leave it along, and don't make an issue of it. If the (Ridgers, as you call them Tim) want to live a different life style, than so be it. They have that right. But who are you or them, to push this life style on anyone else. If you and your wife decide to send your children to Waldorf School, thats your right, but not everyone agree's with it, and that is thier right. People from Viroqua, have allways been very polite, and friendly, to everyone. I see it as all the (Ridgers) are upset becouse not everyone is buying into thier life style, get over it. All the (Townies) are upset becouse they love thier life style just the way it is, great. In your article Tim, you say, changes are afoot, my question is why? Viroqua is a beautiful little city. That has to be the reason alot of people move there. There should be diversity, without shoving it down peoples throat. I do not hear the (Townies) shoving thier life style down anyones throat. I don't know who came up with the (Townies and Ridges) but thats wrong, they're just two different life styles, and I'm shocked that Vernon County isn't big enough for one more life style. "
Sharon wrote on Apr 3, 2007 11:22 AM:
" The PRWS is a Waldorf school that follows closely the teachings of Steiner, a.k.a. anthroposophy, which are based on a dogma that we each belong to a particular race and that the aryan race is superior to all others. Those who teach at Waldorf schools must subscribe to that dogma while simultaneously being directed to not allow the parents or children know what anthroposophy is and thus what is truly being taught within the school. This is hallmark occultism. And, by the way, Steiner himself identified as being a believer in the occult and a protege of Blavatasky. Perhaps, Adam could explain why children in Waldorf schools stay with the same children and same teacher for their entire K-8 schooling.
The local "organics" movement I know from firsthand knowledge is not legitimate. Being certified as "organic" involves paperwork, period. What the writers states about "organic" milk is true. The rules may state one thing, but there is a lot of subterfuge and fudging of records. After all, "organic" milk producers receive more money for their product and that can only lead to corruption, which is not to state that most "organic" milk producers are dishonest. A few are and their milk gets mixed in with the milk of those who are following the rules.
"
Agree with "To Bye and the hippies wrote on Mar 31, 2007 10:49 PM:
" Very well put with few words. I get ragged on about being a "Conventional" dairy farmer, but the hippie coop says using penicillin is BAD! but will not do drug testing on their employees???So illegal drugs are better than Penicillin???Sounds like hypocrycy to me.Also, they allow penicillin use on cattle, but they are supposed to sell the cattle after treatment. How come they get "Hot" loads of milk then (Treated)?I am not against organic food, I think they have their place, but so does my milk. There are a lot of things in the air that will kill you, too. Not necessarily from spraying corn or using penicillin. "
Adam wrote on Mar 28, 2007 4:24 PM:
" I found this article with great interest. And read it quickly to get to the 33 comments that followed it.
The problem I see with this discussion is that it's based on--from one post to the next--small criticisms and large generalizations. More important, I think, than what Rudolf Steiner wrote on page 122, and disputing it, is cheerfully saying hello to someone on the street. What does it say about either of these groups that they put such energy into writing anonymous posts that subtly attack each other? (It's a rhetorical question, but personally I think it reflects badly.)
All the racist quotes from Rudolf Steiner are a little strange for me to read; they had nothing to do with my 9 years of education there. It's funny for me to read things about PRWS that paint it as an occult, secretive place; it's not. I really appreciate the education I got there.
The most important thing in bridging gaps, I think, is to start with mundane interactions. Like asking someone you identify as being from the "other" group to hold the door for you, or doing so or them. I think that's what really matters.
Homeopathy has worked for me, I've been to the clinic here in town since I was young. It's true that I didn't watch much TV while I was going to PRWS (I watch very little now). It's something that is strongly discouraged by anthroposophy, but it is a decision made by the parents in the end. I happy it was a small part of my life. "
Sharon wrote on Mar 27, 2007 10:27 AM:
" One of the reasons the Ridgers fit in well in this area is because of their anti-intellectualism, which is a hallmark of all cults. Check out the local library and see how many Steiner and new age books there are here as compared with other libraries. I once worked with someone who was and is yet again a teacher at the PRWS. She refused to watch TV or read newspapers; she told me that this came from her training in Waldorf. All cults attempt to isolate their followers from the outside world as much as possible so that most, if not all, of their information comes from the cult leaders.
One way to see the increasing influence of anthroposophy in Viroqua is to look at the advertisements for clinics. Homeopathy, which is pure quackery and is not the same as naturopathy or herbalism, is offered at the clinic as if it is empirically based medicine. Homeopathy is a staple of anthroposophic "medicine.") It is illegal to charge for such treatments to insurance companies, but that indeed has been going on for some time now. The medical practitioner simply calls it something else in the insurance billing. "
ya got to laugh wrote on Mar 20, 2007 4:18 PM:
" To sharon,susan,and the rest,and old farmer
told me one time about people being educated
behond there intellengce;you guys are proving
it. "
To Bye and the hippies wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:56 AM:
" You are right on the locals are the ones that are tolorant. The hippies sem to be the ones trying to push their agenda on all of us. Live in peace fine leave us alone even better. We do not try to change you but you seem to try and force feed us everything you think is right. Keep to yourselfs and we will get along just fine! "
Bye wrote on Mar 19, 2007 7:34 AM:
" We have never been so happy as to move from Viroqua. My wife and I were raised in the area, but good ridance. Tolerance?!?! I don't think any local 'counter'culture is so cold to "outsiders" as the "ridgers." There's no chance I would have stayed in that town to raise my child, and plenty are following. "
To all the Rainbow Families wrote on Mar 18, 2007 10:52 AM:
" I'm all for the alternatave(sp?) lifestyles it doesn't bother anyone, but "your" website says that you also anti-violence what the heck do you think all this argueing is its violence with words and another point ulternative doesn't include useing the COMPUTER!!!!!! "
To: "Susan" wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:41 PM:
" Wait a minute, you write, "I just don't like to be marginalized as "bad" by other people around this area, which is discrimination against we Rainbow Family folks, who really don't harm anyone." If this is true, then why are you labeling and discriminating against folks who believe in a certain religion or way of life. As you say, if you really, "...believe in world peace and unity.", then why not peace with the folks living in Babylon. My grandmother is the kindest, and sweetest person I've ever known in my life. She doesn't go to Rainbow gatherings, she's Christian, and she would do anything in the world for me without question. Why do you persecute and judge people like her, when you yourself don't want to be judged? You are creating a lot of your own challenges, practice what you preach, and start looking at ALL people, not just the ones that walk and talk like you, as human beings. We all have hearts, we are all connected. Even those of us living in Babylon. "
Sharon wrote on Mar 16, 2007 5:20 PM:
" I did not use the word “racism” in any of my posts here. Quite ironic considering theat the foundation for anthroposophy is a race-based belief system – one need to only read a bit of Steiner to get that - wherein the aryan race is considered to be the superior race. For anyone truly interested in Waldorf education and what informs it can find more than enough information via the Net; just do a search on “Waldorf and PLANS” which is a web site operated and heavily contributed to by those who had their children enrolled in Waldorf schools, including the PRWS.
"It can certainly not be denied, that today Jewry still appears as a closed totality, and as such many times has intervened in the development of the present situation in a way that has been less than positive for Western cultural ideas. But Jewry as such has long since outlived itself, and has no justification any more within modern life of the peoples, and that it nevertheless has preserved itself is a mistake of world history, whose consequences have been inevitable." [Rudolf Steiner, founder of Waldorf Schools. from his review of "Homunculus" by Hammerling (1888) published in the German Weekly]
"The most characteristic sign of the time is the belief that when a group of individuals have set up some trashy proposition as a general program--such as the unity of all men regardless of race, nation or color, and so forth--something has been accomplished. Nothing has been accomplished except to throw sand into people's eyes. Something real is attained only when we note the differences and realize what world conditions are." (Steiner, 1920, SSFSF p. 122)
* "No doubt about it, the soul becomes corrupted through using the French language...It is also possible at the present time that the French will even ruin their own blood, the very element which has kept their language going as a corpse. That is a terrible thing the French people are doing to other people, the frightful cultural brutality of transplanting black people to Europe. It affects France itself worst of all. This has an incredibly strong effect on the blood, the race. This will substantially add to French decadence. The French nation will be weakened as a race." (Steiner, 1923, CT-3 pp. 87-88) [This is required reading for those studying to become Waldorf teachers]
As for the assertion that the National Socialists persecuted anthroposophists, this is not a factual statement and rather than pull apart that assertion right here I prefer to point anyone interested in the facts to read Peter Staudenmeier’s work, available on the PLANS web site and elsewhere on the Net. Suffice to say here, anthroposophists and National Socialists share a basic set of beliefs, i.e. that a person's race is of paramount importance.
"
Sharon's racism connection is wrong wrote on Mar 16, 2007 11:45 AM:
" There were some misunderstandings and misrepresentations of race not from Steiner himself, but other folks. Note:
"... as regards ... what is independent of our bodily makeup we are all individually made; each one of us is his or her own self, an individual. With the exception of the far less important differences that show up as racial or national differences ... but which are (if you have a sense for this you cannot help noticing it) mere trifles by comparison with differences in individual gifts and skills: with the exception of these we are all equal as human beings ... as regards our external, physical humanity. We are equal as human beings, here in the physical world, specifically in that we all have the same human form and all manifest a human countenance. The fact that we all bear a human countenance and encounter one another as external, physical human beings... this makes us equal on this footing. We differ from one another in our individual gifts which, however, belong to our inner nature."
Rudolf Steiner: Education as a Force for Social Change (in GA 192), Hudson 1997, lecture of 23 April 1919.
More
The central focus of Waldorf education, as one of the movements based on anthroposophy, is the development of that essence in every person that is independent of gender, race or other external characteristics. It makes the Waldorf teacher work at building an understanding and appreciation of each child's place in the world as a world citizen, rather than primarily as a member of a specific nation, ethnic group or race.
In 1935, this anti-racist and anti-nationalist stance of anthroposophy and Waldorf education made the Nazi authorities in Germany prohibit and dissolve the Anthroposophical Society and prohibit the Waldorf schools from taking on new pupils.
"
Sharon wrote on Mar 15, 2007 8:46 PM:
" "Where would we be if Columbus or Newton had not thought differently?"
As concerns where "we" would be if not for Cristobel Colon (a.k.a. Columbus), perhaps that question would be better put to someone whose ancestors are of the traditional indigenous people of the americas. Since there are 11 federally recognized "tribes" within Wisconsin, it shouldn't be difficult to find such a person to ask re: Columbus and his legacy.
"I once heard a saying that someone said was a Native American saying. . ."
There is no such thing as a "Native American saying" anymore than there is any such thing as an "African proverb." (Africa is a continent with more than 50 countries and hundreds of diverse cultures and languages; within the continent of North America there were more than 500 sovereign nations and languages.)
"I am no Steiner expert."
Then how could you have your child(ren) enrolled in a school based solely on the teachings of Steiner? (In order to be an accredited Waldorf school, PRWS must comply with the basic curriculum that is based in anthroposophy, the foundation of which is based on the belief that there exist distinct "races" of people - and there is no biological basis for "race" - and that the aryan "race" is superior to all other "races.") Steiner's anthroposophy predates but is in line with the beliefs of the National Socialists.
"Steiner himself said everything should change and be adapted to a modern context."
Please provide a link for this statement. I have found no such statement from Steiner and would like to be corrected if I am wrong.
"I only know of about 2 families that have any affiliations with the Rainbows"
The PRWS was created by local members of the Rainbow Family. The local Rainbow Family gatherings are coordinated by a Waldorf teacher and her husband, the C.E.O. of C.R.O.P.P. (brand name is "Organic Valley") and have been for more than a decade. The last regional Rainbow Family gathering was sponsored by a family with a child who was a PRWS student and was attended by a number of PRWS families. At every RF annual gathering there is a Kickapoo Kitchen and many of those staffing it are associated with the PRWS. In fact, the one person who is credited with setting up the Kickapoo Kitchen for the "victims of Katrina" is a PRWS graduate and the son of the C.E.O. of C.R.O.P.P.
"believe they still do tours of Pleasant Ridge on Fridays, I suggest people go and check it out if you have questions or want to know more."
And perhaps you could ask about one of their foundational beliefs that had it not been for the interference of Ahriman (who they consider to be the devil) that the indigenous people of the world would have become extinct long ago.
P.S. Many of the PRWS folks are anxious to distance themselves from the Rainbow Family which explains an earlier post here. Remember that scene from the "Wizard of Oz?" where you are told to ignore the man behind the curtain? This is where your critical thinking skills should be kicking in.
"
Susan wrote on Mar 15, 2007 6:05 PM:
" Okay, my name is Susan and I prefer to keep my e-mail address private for safety. Rainbow people go by "Rainbow names". Go do an Internet SEARCH on any search engine for "Rainbow Family" for our websites for our unique "lingo" and you will see:
"Babylon" means mainstream American culture, and other terms we use you term "Scripted" are indeed in our unique lingo. So I don't consider my posts to be "scripted" at all! I have been to over 25 national and regional Rainbow Gatherings since the 1980's, have you?
Divisive? Well, we indeed are "separate" in a way from "Babylon" yet (meaning our culture is different), we also are a part of it when in it and not at our gatherings(we hold jobs in Babylon to survive financially).
We believe in world peace and unity. Is THAT "divisive"? I just don't like to be marginalized as "bad" by other people around this area, which is discrimination against we Rainbow Family folks, who really don't harm anyone. That is why I am posting this. I repeat I am NOT SHARON.
Isn't it obvious she is against the Rainbow Family?
I shop at the Viroqua Co-op and other area natural foods stores. I support Waldorf Education fully, and homeschooling (not public schools).
I support holistic healing.
I support Organic Valley.
Are those "divisive"?
Just because I wrote against strict, FUNDAMENTALIST "Judeo-Christian" values, which many (but NOT all) Rainbow folks have rejected, is just stating the truth, and is not causing "division". Many of us love Buddhism, Hinduism, liberal Jewish beliefs,Hare Krishna,Pagan, Sufi Islam, and all other non-fundamentalist Christian religions, and mystical, non-judgmental forms of Christianity which are not bigoted.
--Susan from La Crosse.
"
Really, it's not a fake post? wrote on Mar 14, 2007 3:47 PM:
" Again, it seems so scripted. Are you trying to cause problems? If it's a real post, list your name...perhaps an email address to be contacted at for confirmation. The way you talk about "outdated Judeo-Christian concepts" and "new age concepts" make me question your authenticity. You seem really judgemental and divisive. Good luck on making your next post sound more authentic!! "
Rainbow Family person wrote on Mar 14, 2007 11:10 AM:
" It is NOT fake. There are many good Rainbow Family members! Drainbows are real too, (to "Christian") and we in the Rainbow Family DON'T like weak, drainbows who don't do their share of work. It is a well-known new age concept that some people, weak people who just take, and are not responsible for their own needs, and who cannot give back to the community, are "drainers of energy". I would say even mainstream Americans are against welfare, right? Read any new age book and you will see this for yourselves, so it is not a "bad" concept.It is fact. Many holistic healers teach this concept of "energy drainers", too. We may reject outdated Judeo-Christian concepts, but we are still good, hard working people. We are hard working Americans like the rest of Americans. Just because we dress differently and wear dreadlocks or whatever doesn't make we Rainbow Family people "bad". Please have some more tolerance. Also if we choose to send our children to Waldorf Schools, don't judge us. I am NOT Sharon.
I don't understand why the rest of the alternative community would want to distance themselves from Rainbow Family people who contribute to organic farms and businesses and who work hard and have a lot to give. I repeat: this is NOT SHARON and this is NOT a fake post. I am quite offended that someone falsely accused me of this! Rainbow Family people are GOOD people. Just because we have a few bad apples, does not "spoil" the entire bunch. We have lawyers, psychotherapists,health care workers, and professionals, besides organic farmers in our Family. We hate welfare! We have a strong work ethic! IF you cannot work, you cannot eat, is our new motto (after years of us putting up with drainbows who took advantage of our love)! No, of course not all Waldorf School people are Rainbow Family members. Just stop distancing yourselves from us, please.We are Everywhere!
--PROUD Rainbow Family person "
Tim Hundt wrote on Mar 14, 2007 1:59 AM:
" Very nice post from "interesting" - took some of the words right out of my mouth - but I will post my thoughts anyway.
I guess since I seem to have sparked this discussion I feel some obligation to help guide it. These are the kind of attitudes on both sides of this discussion I was talking about. Instead of pointing out differences why not try to find what there is in common? Is there really any choice but to find common ground? If you don't find common ground there will just be a contentious squabble that hurts our community.
Perhaps it was not clear in what I wrote that the examples I gave of a Norwegian farmer and a "tree hugger" (which is a phrase I really hate) are extremes to point out the divide. I do not think every person from Viroqua is a Norwegian farmer just as I don't think every parent at Waldorf or the food co-op is a "tree hugger" They are extremes on either side.
So let's not get off into who is more horrible - or what dreadlocks are as opposed to matlocks. People are people folks. There are good people in every group and not such good people. I dealt extensively with the Amish over the years and I would gladly have most of them come to my house and sit at my table, and then there are some that I really wouldn't trust very far. Not because they are Amish but because of who they are. The same holds true for our subdivisions here in town. Most folks at PRWS are incredible, and then there are some that are out there. But I certainly wouldn't judge everyone in a group based on an extreme. Same goes the other way.
To the person who posted about the Rainbow group...I mean no disrespect but this group is not representative of the average Waldorf parent. These are some extreme views that are not held by most people. True there are some Rainbows and I think they for the most part have a different outlook which I personally do not believe in but they should be free to follow their beliefs as long no one is being hurt in the process. I will say this group truly did do an amazing thing in helping the victims of Katrina - far more than a lot of other "charitable" organizations. I wrote the story on what they did after Katrina and it was the real deal, truly courageous.
To the people attacking Rudolph Steiner and the schools philosophy I can tell by your comments you have not been inside the school. I would encourage you to go. Set up a tour. Ask questions. I will be the first to admit I am no Steiner expert. I cannot tell you if the things you have quoted are accurate. All I can tell you is the school is incredible and I think you would be shocked at what goes on there. At a recent assembly (which is held every Friday) one of the classes sang a song in Latin which loosely translated means "Where there is love and kindness you will find God" Yes that's right - they commonly refer to God. What I do know about their philosophy is they try to teach the whole child...mind, body, spirit. Not unlike the 4H credo? So please do not frame this school as a cult. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Some very wealthy people with very good jobs come here from all over the country to live here and have their kids attend PRWS ? Isn't that a good thing? I have to wonder why you are trying so hard to find something bad about this school.
Finally, to the person who looks at any private school as a drain on the public school - I used to feel the same way until I struggled to get my son help in a public school. Public schools are great but if someone is outside the norm they sometimes get left behind. My son is still in public school and he is doing well now but I can?t help but think a different setting would have helped him years ago. It's different - not better or worse - just different. Where would we be if Columbus or Newton had not thought differently? I think Viroqua public schools are fantastic. That was not the point of my piece. Have you ever heard anyone call the public school here a cult? I haven't. But I have heard PRWS called a cult. Trust me, I am an old farm boy - no cult stuff for me - but it is a great school that enhances the whole community - including the public school.
I would ask that we not focus on the extremes and lets focus on what we can do find commonalities. Go to the school. Attend one of the assemblies. I think you will be shocked.
For those at PRWS - or for anyone from outside the area - go to local functions, pancake suppers, school events, town meetings. Learn about each other and from each other.
I once heard a saying that someone said was a Native American saying (Not sure about that ) that went something like ...It is possible to learn something from everyone - even the person you dislike the most - if you do not learn anything from them the fault lies with you - not them.
"
interesting wrote on Mar 13, 2007 11:00 PM:
" It's interesting that folks don't post their real name with their comments. What would this forum look like if we all did it? As far as the "Rainbow Family Person" comment. After re-reading it, I have to believe it's a fake post. Re-read it, notice how scripted it sounds. Again, anyone could put that up there, maybe even Sharon herself, in order to cause more tension and have something to respond to. Who knows? It just seems over the top scripted. I have a kid at the Waldorf school here, and I can tell you that people don't send their kids there because they are into what Rudolph Steiner wrote about years ago. Steiner himself said everything should change and be adapted to a modern context. Most people send their kids there because they want something different for their kids...it's about that simple. At the Waldorf school, they are really tuned into child development and overall well-being of the child. It's so far from a cult, it's actually quit boring, nothing mysterious. And yes, I agree with one of the other posts, I only know of about 2 families that have any affiliations with the Rainbows...this is such a bizarre connection that Sharon keeps trying to make. Families aren't interested in going to these gatherings. Of the folks I'm friends with in this area, not one is interested in going, or even gives it much thought. Honestly, my kid goes there because my wife wants him to. I could care less what school my child goes to, it's really all about the parents and home life that's most important. At Pleasant Ridge my child gets a bit more art, music, and a healthier lunch, but it doesn't mean I don't have to parent. I'm not a ridger or a townie, just a person trying to make it through the day like we all are, doing the best we can. If we have mutual respect and what we do doesn't hurt others, then live and let live. The judgement is on both sides. Sometimes I see folks that are stereotyped as liberal get pretty self-richous and think they are better, this isn't the majority, rather the loudest. I also see others make a lot of assumptions that simply aren't true about more 'liberal' folks. I believe they still do tours of Pleasant Ridge on Fridays, I suggest people go and check it out if you have questions or want to know more. "
to: Rainbow Family Person wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:11 PM:
" I believe in Jesus Christ. I will pray that the Holy Spirit will visit you in hopes that you will someday believe in Him. God said, "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me". He is the only light. I will also pray for the "drainbows" as you call them. I will pray that God gives them strength and that they will learn how to work harder. You think it is unfair that others are not tolerant of you, but you are not tolerant of others. Lastly, you have helped the victims of Hurricane Katrina, but Jesus said that when you do a kind deed, you should not brag about it. Matthew 6 "
Why bring it up. wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:58 PM:
" What ever happened to minding your own business. That goes for ridgers and townies. Cant we all just leave eachother alone? Also public school should be the only school. If you dont use it you are teaching your kids that your group is better! Waldorf, home school, and whatever else they came up with here. "
Sharon wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:13 PM:
" "Plus look what we did for Hurricane Katrina victims. How soon have you forgotten what we did for the Hurricane Katrina victims?"
What I could say about these statements could fill a small book. Right now, I will only state that it is a rather universal benchmark of true "charity" that one not speak of it much less brag about it. "
Sharon wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:09 PM:
" S/he who posted as "Dominant Culture" actually has succeeded in a very few words to capture the essence of the anthroposophist/Waldorf cult. I could not have encapsulated it any better.
For those truly interested in what forms the foundation of anthroposophy and its current manifestation, i.e. Waldorf, I suggest reading some of Rudolf Steiner's writings, which are widely available via the Net. In response to those who claim to embrace "multiculturalism" please explaing the following from Steiner's "Vom Leben des Menschen und der Erde:"
"One can only understand history and all of social life, including today's social life, if one pays attention to people's racial characteristics. . ." p. 52
"Very few inventions have been made in Asia. They can assemble things, but as for inventions themselves, that is, that which arises from experience with the external world, the Asians cannot do this." p. 59
And then there is this from Steiner's
"I am personally convinced that if we get more Negro novels, and give these Negro novels to pregnant women to read during the first phase of pregnancy, when as you know they can sometimes develop such cravings, if we give these Negro novels to pregnant women to read, then it won’t even be necessary for Negroes to come to Europe in order for mulattoes to appear. Simply through the spiritual effects of reading Negro novels, a multitude of children will be born in Europe that are completely gray, that have mulatto hair, that look like mulattoes!” Ǘber Gesundheit und Krankheit’, pg. 189
As for the difference between "matlocks" and "dreadlocks" - not brushing one's hair and letting it forms mats is the antithesis of dreading, which involves a daily task of curling the hair so that it results in a particular form that allows the person wearing them to shampoo the hair as cleanly as someone not wearing dreads, i.e. the soap travels in and around the curled hair. Matted hair does not allow one to keep his/her hair clean and results in clumps of hair that harbor dirt, etc. "
to Sharon wrote on Mar 13, 2007 1:18 PM:
" I have read some of Steiner's writings. The most disturbing is when he said that intelligence comes from blond hair and blue eyes! I also fully agree with "good dialogue". "
Just a Question wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:01 PM:
" What right do you have to say that your culture is better than the mainstream American culture? "
Rainbow family person wrote on Mar 12, 2007 1:07 PM:
" As a Rainbow Family person (using a public computer) I have to say that we certainly do have children in Pleasant Ridge Waldorf School so don't say we "don't"! Stop putting down Our Rainbow Family! That is very intolerant of people to put down the Rainbow Family. Go to our Google newsgroup, for our point of view.
Yes, we are a different culture, better than your Babylon (mainstream American) culture. I have gone to many Rainbow gatherings. Plus look what we did for Hurricane Katrina victims. How soon have you forgotten what we did for the Hurricane Katrina victims?
Thank you in advance for being tolerant of us. We hope to enroll more of our children in PRWS as we work hard and earn our living in organic agriculture in this beautiful area which Mother Nature/Mother Earth has given us (we mostly do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God).We are all ONE and we worship many gods and goddesses. Some (a few) do worship the Judeo-Christian God in our Rainbow Family, but they are tolerant and not fundamentalist, and they are Interfaith with us. We are hard workers and we do not tolerate energy draining, non-working, weak, "drainbows" in our Rainbow Family anymore. Rainbow Family of Living Light Forever! Please stop insulting the Rainbow Family here. "
Agree WIth Sharon wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:18 AM:
" I happen to agree fully with Sharon's well-researched comment here. Thanks Sharon. "
misc. wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:20 PM:
" Here's just a few comments.
-"Matlocks" and dreadlocks are nasty. Why would anyone want their hair like that? They are simply not clean. Would you want your dog to have hair matted up like that?
-The waldorf school in town, though a positive thing for the alternative crowd, actually is a disservice to the community. It divides the community starting with the children and leaves the public school a place with even less diversity than other schools in towns like Viroqua.
-Viroqua could use a couple good restaurants...the kind of places where you can get a good micro brew without sitting around people smoking...the kind of place that would attract people in their 20's.
-People who live in Viroqua need to get out once in a while. From reading these comments, it seems like people are living fairly sheltered lives there. "
Part-time Ridger wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:33 AM:
" What this community needs is more jobs. Not service jobs that don't pay living wages and offer no benefits, but decent jobs that people can live on. How do you get those jobs? By investing in the community. Viroqua needs to learn how to market itself and to invest money in itself. Everyone no matter what their personal philosophy is or the appearance might be or even their heritage is must come together and work to build a better community. Or it will wither and die. "
Ridger with a Reason wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:19 AM:
" I am the son of a dairy farmer, but left to be an engineer. I always admire the people who choose the farming vocation because I know how hard it is and how smart a successful farmer has to be. But what was once a good career choice is very difficult nowadays for most young people to get into. So it seems most kids leave for college and the good paying jobs found in the bigger cities. I did, found a wife, had kids, made a good living, and am ready now to do something completely different. And that is why I am a part-time ridger in this community. I shop locally - sometmes at the Co-op and sometimes at the Wal-mart, donate money locally, bank locally, and I am building my next home using local labor. I plan to be a part of this world for the next 20 years or so once I retire. In every community I have lived there is always change happening, as it is now in Viroqua. The whole national economy is changing and we should adapt to the changes. I believe that if people of Viroqua want things to stay more like they once were then you need to really invest in your community. You need to get people to invest and create jobs here, you need a vibrant and healthy work environment. Then the community stays alive and grows. Otherwise as the older people die off and the younger people have left for greener pastures elsewhere, your community dies. I see this happening in many little towns around here, such as Boaz to the east, Readstown to the south, even Norwalk to the north. Jobs leave, people leave, and the decline starts. I believe the best things everyone could do is to work together to invest in the community, find ways to create good jobs, and always try to understand that the great majority of us choose to be here and nowhere else. We all have that much in common. Me, I love it here and my wife and I are actively trying to find a business, albeit a small one, that we can bring to Viroqua and enjoy doing for the next 20 years. "
Good dialogue wrote on Mar 8, 2007 10:28 PM:
" I appreceite the conversation this article has sparked. Overall, I think a lot of the divide is simply built up in people's minds. When it really comes down to it in day to day interactions, I see, and experience people being kind to one another here, and not getting bent out of shape because someone looks different than they do. I would align myself with both 'groups' as well. I like to eat healthy food, support local businesses, etc., but I like to use my chainsaw and hunt as well. But one thing that bothers me, is lightly throwing around the word "Rainbows" when describing many of the folks around here. I barely know anyone that goes to these gatherings, and I have no interest whatsoever. I think there's a misperception there. I bet less than 3% of the PWRS parents are involved or go to rainbow gatherings, this is simply a misperception. "
local scholarly work pertinent to this subject wrote on Mar 8, 2007 10:05 PM:
" a few internet searches turn up some very intersting work by locals. example in point, an award-winning thesis by Coon Valley native Jacob Hundt on "Potluck Schools" (now living and working in viroqua, aparently...) "
Sharon wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:24 PM:
" "Let me ask what you think would happen if PRWS closed tomorrow? Or if Organic Valley suddenly decided to move their headquarters to La Crosse?"
Sounds like a bit of a threat, doesn't it?
Viroqua has been in the sights of anthroposophists for some time now. (Do a web search: "associative economics" and viroqua)
I recommend that anyone who wishes to understand the PRWS, which is considered to be one of the most conservative Waldorf schools in the world, read some of Rudolf Steiner's writings available via the Net and at McIntosh library. That this is an area that settled by Norwegians has much to do with why the Rainbow family, the precursors of the local anthroposophists, began to buy land here beginning in the mid 1970s.
For first-hand information re: the PRWS by someone whose child was enrolled there, I recommend reading Sharon Lombard's articles (one of which is part of her master's thesis on anthroposophy) available on the Net.
An event that did allow the "Townies" and the "Ridgies" to find common cause was the production of "Little Mary Sunshine." The lead role was filled by a PRWS graduate.
The reference to "dreadlocks" is typical of those who appropriate other cultures. True "dreadlocks" can only by worn by someone of African heritage who is Rastafarian and who has a particular hair type. "Matlocks," i.e. matted hair, are not "dreadlocks;" "dreads" are not matted hair.
Sharon "
Dominant Culture wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:04 PM:
" You are right: the "Ridgers" are no different from the other Dominant Culture people in the US. They share the same values:
Protestant Work Ethic: if someone is too non-functional to work the organic farms, the person is considered "an energy drain" and the old adage "if you cannot work, you cannot eat" applies.
Basically, it is "be responsible to the responsible and not to "energy vampires" (needy, wounded people) in the new age subculture of the mainstream dominant culture.
So this subculture of the mainstream dominant culture (they are NO DIFFERENT than other white, middle-to-upper class people, and certainly NOT like people of color as the author claims).
--As for "rastas", REAL African American Rastas are NOT WHITE! They mostly reject white people play acting "rasta culture"! The same with REAL First Nations ("American Indian") peoples who are rightfully angry with new age white people who play act "being Indian" for money and power!
So you are correct, that there is really NO DIFFERENCE between the Ridgers (or Rainbows, new agers, or whatever they are labeled) and the rest of the white middle-to-upper class Dominant Culure. They are NO BETTER OR DIFFERENT and certainly are just a subculture of the mainstream if anything.
This has NOTHING to do with multiculturalism, which is supposed to be about DIFFERENT CULTURES.
Most here I met are white, middle-to-upper class people who wish they were not like their parents!
In reality they are JUST like their parents who they rebelled against. Sorry for the wake up call!
I think that is why they fit in so well. If they were REALLY African American or Mexican or First Nations,and POOR, I am SURE they would know what RACISM and CLASSISM is REALLY about. "
Townie "2" wrote on Mar 8, 2007 3:44 PM:
" I have lived here all my life as well, and I really don't like the way Viroqua is going. There is absolutely NOTHING in this town to keep young people from graduating and moving away. No industry, jobs, NOTHING!!! Farming used to be enough, but it isn't anymore.
We have a great hospital, 2 nursing homes, and assisted living for the elderly. Why would young people stay when they can't make a decent living?
I guess I just don't understand why people want to keep "our town" as far in the "backwoods" as possible. Hooray for PRWS, just let the town GROW and become someplace our children and grandchildren want to stay.
P.S. Please get the cord of wood off the sidewalk on Mainstreet! "
Townie1 wrote on Mar 7, 2007 10:03 PM:
" Thanks, Tim...I've actually been thinking a lot about this very subject lately. As a born-and-raised Viroquan who moved away for a short period of time, I too have noticed "the divide". One of the point of views omitted from your editorial is the fact that some of the "townies" may be interested in learning more about the "ridgers" and have not felt comfortable doing so because THEY feel like the outsider. I do wish this town had more opportunities for young people to come together and get to know new people. "
Paul Liamson wrote on Mar 7, 2007 6:06 PM:
" I'm an outsider to the area, who also lived a long time in a small town -- a lot smaller than Viroqua. I think some of the divisions that Tim is talking about have been closing up, especially in the past 10 years. Let's remember PRWS has been here 25 years. That said, when you put the organic-PRWS-the co-op-Rainbowers-liberals-etc. together in one group, it seems like a subculture. The one thing that we have is mutal respect. You can see that on the pages of our newspaper (even if some of the blog posts are a little wacky). I don't have dreadlocks down to my butt and I don't drive a Subaru, VW or Volvo, but I hope the folks that do look at me as just another human on the planet instead of some establishment piece because I drive an SUV and drink beer at the VF. It's not "Ridgers vs. Townies" anymore and I hope that goes both ways. "
Mary Christenson wrote on Mar 7, 2007 4:53 PM:
" Thanks, Tim, for helping to build the bridge. Some of us Ridgers came from small towns and have an appreciation for this one. That's why they would like to become incorporated in the fabric of the area, put down roots and plan their futures here. I appreciate that last image, too, and I'm an optimist with you. It means that all of us have to become open minded and accepting of all our neighbors. The day is coming. "